Anti-bunny debate

Suggest and discuss new ideas or ways we can improve the game.
Anakin
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:53 am

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Anakin »

Better yet.. let`s do it as they do it in school...lessons / case studies:

1. I am in a lvl 5 cloaker in Roids and I want to scout if my bomber heavy Legion can go to Ajaxus unseen, for some free points, as the said Jax are busy shooting Bors and Krils in MH. I jump to Apollo and SOT I see a lonely lvl 1. My idea is to shoot the lvl 1 ASAP , so my Legion can jump. Reasoning : win one turn as, IF they had anyone with scans, will not be threatened by a lonely cloaker which can`t do much to a HW and bunny in HW is stupid.
Why SHOULD I lose 1500 points in this scenario?

2. I am in a lvl 5 cloaker in Dragor and I see on the hypering in window a enemy lvl 1 ship hypering in. I have information that the enemy blob is in Tripe. Next turn I am the ONLY one online start of turn at the 10 seconds mark.
Why SHOULD I lose 1500 points in this scenario?

3. I am in a lvl 5 cloaker, having been back from vacation in my own HW, when I spot a lvl 1 enemy bomber on the enemy tab.
Why SHOULD I lose 1500 points in this scenario?

4. I am in a lvl 5 cloaker, having just survived heavy bombing, so I need to get as many sectors as I can for my Legion. In their rush to leave, the offenders left one lvl 1 ship behind.
Why SHOULD I lose 1500 points in this scenario?

5. I am a Kril and I am rushing to defend PK coming from DH. I am a lvl 5, of course. Going to MH, I see one lvl 1 ship there.
Why SHOULD I lose 1500 points in this scenario?

Answer them one by one and please explain to me why should I concede points in any of the above examples.
Arch
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:58 am

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Arch »

1. Navcom colors and a ranking scans provide the same intel. I will know you are going to Ajaxus regardless if you shoot that L1. No strategic value in killing him since its not preventing any information gathering.
2. A cloaked ship will be used for recon in adjacent sectors before a L1 is. Shooting the L1 will have no affect on scans since I already have them from my cloaker. No one sends L1s to scout any more, silly.
3. No need to shoot a L1 bomber in your HW, there's no threat to the base being destroyed. Just a chance for you to +1 your kills.
4. No need to shoot L1 stragglers, there's no strategic value in removing them from your HW. Again, just a +1 to your kill count.
5. Again. no strategic value. The other legion already knows you are coming back to defend, scans are irrelevant.

You can come up with your contrived scenarios all day long if you want. The fact of the matter is, there's little reason to allow bunny-ing when the situations are so few and far between. I have been playing this game for years and can count on one hand how many times I have needed to bunny. The need to keep growing the playerbase far exceeds the need to kill a bunny once every four rounds. The whole "if it occurs once rule" is a matter opinion I do not agree with, everything in life is a compromise and this is no different. This rule is a compromise allowing the ability to still shoot bunnies albeit with consequences. Had the code functioned that you cannot in any way shoot a bunny as a L5, then you may have some ground to stand on. As it stands, you are completely free to operate and shoot what you want - just at the cost of points if you make the decision to do so.

And yes, it is another decision that needs to be made. Is it worth losing points to remove scans from a particular sector. Jumping, firing, sleeping, are all decisions that need to be made and this is just another one with different consequences.

You're over-reacting and blowing this way out of proportion. Similar anti-bunnying measures were introduced in TVS1 and worked successfully there.
Anakin
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:53 am

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Anakin »

1. Irrelevant answer. The question was... why should I lose 1500 per shot to kill the ship that gives scans or can comm as to who is hypering in or out? And you know only that ONE ship is there. You have a 50-50% option = the Legion jumps or it`s just a stray ship. The reason is irrelevant ANYWAY. An empty sector is better than a sector with ANYONE in. Just as I would shoot ANY ship, I am shooting the lvl 1. Why should I get -1500 points per shot for something I would do anyway, to ANY ship, in a sector that ALLOWS me, outside ANY HW? .

2. I am talking about a very specific scenario. A scenario that penalizes gameplay, given that you need a scout in a hurry and risk losing a cloaker or have no cloaker with moves or have no cloaked cloaker. To some extent... it boils to this: Why should I get -1500 points per shot because of a ship that suicided or just miss-jumped? Or jumped in the middle of my blob, with only me being online?. The points lost to any ship "within range", or any lvl 1-3 are my issue with my Legion, not my target`s concern... nor anyone elses.

3. So I am to just leave and let the bomber level and go on his merry way? Yes.. I can TOTALLY see it happen. Points are points.. and one idea of this game is deny pints for the enemy. That lvl 1 bomber is doing points when it should stay at a nice 0, ideally.. so I have a VERY good reason to kill him. And it is really stupid to just wait until it levels to 3...And I have YET ANOTHER reason to.. I will be racing to join my own blob.. so ideally I "reset" the guy`s points and gain 4 turns ...

4. A straggler is a straggler. Fewer jumps away from my blob. A straggler is a target REGARDLESS.. be it a lvl 5 or lvl 1. A straggler is just asking for it and is SHOOT ON SIGHT... you know it.. I know it.. everybody knows it... Why do I get -1500 points penalty for shooting SOME stragglers?

5. I just LOVE to shoot ANYTHING on the enemy tab.. it`s just a bad habit I have... Why do I get -1500 points penalty for shooting a ship in a sector in which my blob is? LONELY ship?
Last edited by Anakin on Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Arch
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:58 am

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Arch »

I am not answering your questions, this is ridiculous at this point. I explained to you why its strategically unimportant for you to shoot a bunny in those scenarios. You want to modify them and add new parameters on top of that to fit your needs, so I am not going down that path any further.

A line from childhood applies here: "Pick on someone your own size." You want to bunny, you can't without suffering the consequences - deal with it or don't do it.

I am done with this conversation, I should of known better after watching Demo try to talk to a wall for a couple pages ;)
Anakin
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:53 am

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Anakin »

Strategy has no bearing here. I am in a position to shoot a ship and I take that .. I would rather have a lvl 5, but ANY low lvl being in those positions, asked for it. Just as any lvl 5.

Again.. I am showing scenarios as to how this rule penalizes gameplay.. or free shooting in a shooting game...

WHY AM I SHOWING THESE SCENARIOS? Because the rule is supposed to limit bunny. Fine by me.

But the same rule adds discrimination: I can shoot freely a lvl 5, but I cannot shoot freely a lvl 1, in a situation which DOES NOT QUALIFY as "voluntary bunny". Which means I get penalty for playing the game, or shoot anything on the enemy tab.

Let`s be clear on one thing: If ANYONE is outside his/her blob.. then it`s free game... for EVERYONE. Just as a lvl 5 makes no exception... neither should a lvl 1. Nor should I be penalized for shooting WITHOUT THE INTENT OF BUNNY.

I see a target.. I shoot a target. THAT SIMPLE. Target`s fault for being alone or in my way and not high enough level to soak 5 shots. It should have been miles away with its respective blob or not in my way.. or in its HW... or on the other side of the map. I don`t give a damn on its reasons. It was in the same sector AT THE SAME TIME, thus being a "target of opportunity".

I will explain again: the rule has at least FIVE scenarios in which limits gameplay.. FOUR TOO MANY, as this means the rule was badly thought over and poorly implemented, as it exceeds its proclaimed goal.
Demolition
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:39 pm

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Demolition »

tvs... meet brick wall... I am done
Jhyphi
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:09 pm

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Jhyphi »

Scenario #ALL YOU NEED

Low level sits in middle of enemy blob and no one can kill him without losing points. That or enemy gets free scans of your blob for eternity.

You say that doesn't exist? Killbot hadn't moved for 4 days in CWest and we had to waste 3 shots (-4500) points to get rid of him. It's ridiculous BS.
Demolition
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:39 pm

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Demolition »

Jhyphi wrote:Scenario #ALL YOU NEED

Low level sits in middle of enemy blob and no one can kill him without losing points. That or enemy gets free scans of your blob for eternity.

You say that doesn't exist? Killbot hadn't moved for 4 days in CWest and we had to waste 3 shots (-4500) points to get rid of him. It's ridiculous BS.
Why did you sit in CW for 4 days?

And your trying to tell me... in 4 days... your low lvls couldn't manage to kill a lvl 1?

I dont believe it.. thats like saying santa clause is real.
redken
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:08 pm

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by redken »

Demolition wrote:
Jhyphi wrote:Scenario #ALL YOU NEED

Low level sits in middle of enemy blob and no one can kill him without losing points. That or enemy gets free scans of your blob for eternity.

You say that doesn't exist? Killbot hadn't moved for 4 days in CWest and we had to waste 3 shots (-4500) points to get rid of him. It's ridiculous BS.
Why did you sit in CW for 4 days?

And your trying to tell me... in 4 days... your low lvls couldn't manage to kill a lvl 1?

I dont believe it.. thats like saying santa clause is real.
They didn't sit in CW for 4 days the inactive bor ship did.

Have you taken a look at the rankings? The active Jax are all level 5.

We have on our LN new that low level ships should go to the roids because the Jax can't kill them without losing both points and health. Sure the low levels heading to the roids has always happened, it is near improssible to deny scans there, but them having to lose points too is a nice bonus for us and very annoying for them I would guess.
Anakin
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:53 am

Re: Anti-bunny debate

Post by Anakin »

Demolition wrote:
Jhyphi wrote:Scenario #ALL YOU NEED

Low level sits in middle of enemy blob and no one can kill him without losing points. That or enemy gets free scans of your blob for eternity.

You say that doesn't exist? Killbot hadn't moved for 4 days in CWest and we had to waste 3 shots (-4500) points to get rid of him. It's ridiculous BS.
Why did you sit in CW for 4 days?
Why would you care, or why do we debate personal choice? BECAUSE THEY COULD! BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO! Because it`s none of your damn bussiness where somebody else decides to sit!

Oh.. and btw... they were talking about the bor ship...


And your trying to tell me... in 4 days... your low lvls couldn't manage to kill a lvl 1?
They DONT HAVE low levels! None that can get there in time ANYWAY! And because they want to shoot ANYTHING in their sector NOW or YESTERDAY! Not when a low enough level decides to stroll into the sector and spend the next TWO turns trying to kill its equal.

I dont believe it.. thats like saying santa clause is real.
And you don`t believe what? That they HAD TO lose points to kill a ship in the middle of their blob?
Wow... just wow ... at this point you are trolling hard bro...
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