How about if you get killed by a shot scoring no points then you retain your current score when you respawn as an alternative to the current well intentioned but misguided attempt to reduce bunnying.
Best remark i've seen all thread The only problem i see with that is that high levels might take the first big chunks off and then the lower levels will finish the job -> still all points lost. And suicide scanning near HW could still happen this way (though like Demolition said, you could use cloakers for that now). But all in all this is a good idea!
I agree with this as a solution to Anakin's issue.
Add no kill to the shooter too.. if it`s above the 3 lvl difference.
So, for this rule to be changed we need at least 3 options:
1. If you get killed by a shot scoring no points then you retain your current score when you respawn as an alternative. - no penalty other than a free trip to your respective HW, which you would end up doing anyway (but in this case you don`t lose points for being too low a level) - as was pointed out earlier in the thread.. you can end up in a sort of an impossible scenario: A high level shoots one and gets the target almost to zero, with a low level shooting for kill and reset points.
A counter argument to this would be the following: a lvl 1 is normally not a target. If the ship is out of position, it STILL needs a ship "within range" to get reset. A fair penalty for playing "Rambo". It already has a slight advantage: not lose points in certain circumstances as opposed to everyone else losing points in any
2. No points of any sort are given for a shot on a ship more than 3 levels lower - so there is no reason to shoot other than legit strategical situations. Also no kill awarded as per the following point. As per above reason... if you do get a bunny7 on purpose... it is a high enough level that points are not lost and you only lose the turns needed to rejoin blob.. which are easy with auto - pilot
3. No kill is awarded to the shooter if the ship is more than 3 levels higher - no kill count increase.. self explanatory. No "bragging", or "kill-count".. no reason to shoot other than strategical situations, or bunny on purpose, which is covered in the above 2 other points
Low level sits in middle of enemy blob and no one can kill him without losing points. That or enemy gets free scans of your blob for eternity.
You say that doesn't exist? Killbot hadn't moved for 4 days in CWest and we had to waste 3 shots (-4500) points to get rid of him. It's ridiculous BS.
Why did you sit in CW for 4 days? Why would you care, or why do we debate personal choice? BECAUSE THEY COULD! BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO! Because it`s none of your damn bussiness where somebody else decides to sit!
Oh.. and btw... they were talking about the bor ship...
And your trying to tell me... in 4 days... your low lvls couldn't manage to kill a lvl 1? They DONT HAVE low levels! None that can get there in time ANYWAY! And because they want to shoot ANYTHING in their sector NOW or YESTERDAY! Not when a low enough level decides to stroll into the sector and spend the next TWO turns trying to kill its equal.
I dont believe it.. thats like saying santa clause is real. And you don`t believe what? That they HAD TO lose points to kill a ship in the middle of their blob?
Wow... just wow ... at this point you are trolling hard bro...
Yea, demo is grasping at straws now.
At the time, we didn't really have any low levels. Now we have like 2 active ones.
As mentioned, all our players were level 5. We had 1 lvl 4 who still can't shoot a level 1. So really, we had no one in our entire 13 ship blob that could kill a lvl 1. This is why it has to change where there's a detection if there's no ships in the sector that are "non-bunnies", then the smaller ships are fair game.
Nope, this beta has been 1 sided start to finish, its soo boring I cba to play it.
I do not feel this round is a good example of how a round SHOULD be.
Something needs to be done to properly balance legions, as randomly choosing a legion on login is not doing us any good for a solid fun game experience for all 4 legions each round.
And I am not grasping at straws, I am done wasting my time here since anakin doesn't read, he just shouts his "I wants" at the top of his lungs and downs you out.
Demolition wrote:Nope, this beta has been 1 sided start to finish, its soo boring I cba to play it. I am talking about all Betas or any Beta. Which side is bigger or better is not the issue here. The issue is losing 1500 per shot in situations where it`s legit gameplay as opposed to "a jerk bunny a lvl 1"
I do not feel this round is a good example of how a round SHOULD be. We are a bit ahead of personal opinions or closing eyes here. There are five reasons ahead, then one more .. of situations VERY real that happened and will happen again. Again.. if you only have ONE reason... then it is one too many.
Something needs to be done to properly balance legions, as randomly choosing a legion on login is not doing us any good for a solid fun game experience for all 4 legions each round. Ranting. This has always been the case. Whichever Legion has more "spirit" will win or come-back if it can.. if not... it will put one last glorious fight then move on... And you already have random joining: but there is no way of knowing HOW ACTIVE a legion will be or if the LC is a smart one.. if any.
And I am not grasping at straws, I am done wasting my time here since anakin doesn't read, he just shouts his "I wants" at the top of his lungs and downs you out. You decided to diss Jhyphi`s real scenario that happened yesterday or the day before as a work of fiction...really shooting yourself in the foot there, because his argument still stands: He had reason and he was in the position to shoot a lvl 1 without it being considered bunny... as it was CW, a sector in which his legion wanted to jump.. and the ship was there for the last 4 days. By all accounts and rules, ANY ship in that sector is free game. Yet he needed to concede 4500 points.
The reason is not important as to why they were there, as it is the Jax Legions decision and none of anybody elses decision. You not believing that the Jax Legion was in CW, having to shoot at a ship in CW, ANY ship, just because it is ALONE in the middle of their blob won`t make it go away.
I am not blind nor deaf... but I would like to hear logical arguments, not your personal opinion or thrown strawmans left and right
At this point you already established yourself as denying everything just because you cannot counter it... and I will quote you...
I dont believe it.. thats like saying santa clause is real. - this is you saying that the Jax WERE NOT in CW and they SHOULD NOT shoot the lonely ship in there. Or you saying that they REFUSED to produce a lvl 1 or 2, to shoot down the said ship.. when they did not have any at that time.
And yet you refuse to counter anything I say as well Anakin. I am done with this thread. All you do is shout at the top of the lungs that you are right and everyone else who differs from you is wrong. Let me know when you actually wish to discuss anything and we can talk again.
Low level sits in middle of enemy blob and no one can kill him without losing points. That or enemy gets free scans of your blob for eternity.
You say that doesn't exist? Killbot hadn't moved for 4 days in CWest and we had to waste 3 shots (-4500) points to get rid of him. It's ridiculous BS.
Why did you sit in CW for 4 days?
And your trying to tell me... in 4 days... your low lvls couldn't manage to kill a lvl 1?
I dont believe it.. thats like saying santa clause is real. - This is you, saying that the Jax were not in CW, and did not have a reason to shoot a lonely ship (ONE) ship, inactive for 4 days, that was freely giving scans, in a sector that has tactical value for them and being totally oblivious to the fact that they did not have ANY ship within the "no penalty zone" at that time too.
This is how you counter things, Demolition.. by red-herrings and strawman arguments. In extreme cases you deny it even happening and making up explanations as you go, in the above case denying free will to a Legion that doesn`t have to explain to you why they WOULD HAVE sat in CW for 4 days... or asking for a specific fleet combo (which is impossible at times) to kill a lvl 1 inactive for 4 days, on the opposite side of the map from his HW.
You are yet to provide valid arguments as to why the previously mentioned SIX things cannot happen.
Demolition wrote:IMO, it would be much easier to implement it as it was before... 1500 for the kill not 1500 for every shot.
Then Anakin would only QQ if he got the killing blow.
You still penalize the shooter for shooting stuff. Which the rule should not do, but rather to defend or protect the said bunny (more like defend his points but hey.. if you kill a lvl 5 and goes back to its respective HW.. then a lvl 1 should do the same... only that it keeps the points) AND allow free play too. Which we are trying to achieve by a bit of brain storming and not by trolling ...
I have procided reason... they CAN happen.. the game does not refuse you the right to attack a lvl 1 or lvl 2.... It ONLY makes you stop and consider "IS THE KILL WORTH LOSING THE POINTS?"
I can not state it any clearer then that for you... and I am not bothering to check this thread again. Take it or leave it I am done talking to you brick wall. You refuse to consider anything but your own opinion therefore this is and has been a huge waste of my time.
Did it ever occur to you that nobody should lose points for a legit situation, in which any ship is up for grabs?
Like Jhyphi`s situation described above: If it would have been any other ship, it would have been shot down, because it is an enemy ship in the middle of their blob. As such, any level, be it lvl 1 or a lvl 2, is bound by the same rules.
The rule that is supposed to protect bunny costs points in legit situations, just as I explained: one is being penalized for playing the game in legit gameplay scenarios... the ones that you claim don`t exist.
The said bunny that can be protected by actually protecting its points, as means to level and be a "legit lvl 3". You know.. like, instead of the shooter paying for the bunny`s stupidity.. the actual bunny gets sent packing to its HW.. only that it keeps the points (but gets sent away from the sector). I still think it discriminates but whatever.. I concede that is a necessary evil.
So, instead of the shooter getting the penalty...NOBODY gets the penalty.. AND the bunny keeps its points.. as opposed to losing ALL its points... what more do you want?
If the above is still not satisfactory... you are really in the wrong game...
Low level sits in middle of enemy blob and no one can kill him without losing points. That or enemy gets free scans of your blob for eternity.
You say that doesn't exist? Killbot hadn't moved for 4 days in CWest and we had to waste 3 shots (-4500) points to get rid of him. It's ridiculous BS.
This is called a luxury problem. If your legion has nothing but level 5 ships it really doesnt matter if some of your cruisers lose some points. Please go and kill some planets instead of lingering around and worrying about bunnies giving scans
I don't see why we are still discussing this. I thought we were heading in a good direction where people were coming up with good alternatives, but now we are back to yes-no-ing. The only way to ever get consensus on this discussion is to come up with a better alternative. (I think those with children know what i mean (no i dont have children)).
@Anakin: where do you expect this discussion to head if your first response to someone who has taken the time and effort to read and answer your questions is "Irrelevant answer". Come on!
And a luxury problem should not exist, as it is not the goal of the "bunny rule" to create such a scenario. Anyway you want to call the problem.. it happened and it will happen again, so the rule failed in that particular scenario.. and in 5 others.. and in probably more, but we didn`t find them yet. Which makes it a bad rule... and a bad rule gets amended or removed. Is that simple.
But coming in here and pretending it didnt happen or pretending that someone else should pay for ones mistakes is too much.
Again: This rule has at least an effect that qualifies as a "bug" - in which one blob cannot shoot a low enough lvl without penalty if it lacks a certain composition: which is idiotic, as it deducts points for an inactive, or for an out of position ship... or for shooting without bunny intent... which is "unforseen effect", or "backfiring rule".
Closing our eyes and putting the fingers in our ears and going all "Lalalaaaa I can`t hear you" won`t make it go away. Nor ignoring it and keep forcing penalties for someone elses mistake. Because it IS a mistake being outside the blob. Or are we going to pretend it isn`t?
The only problem i see with that is that high levels might take the first big chunks off and then the lower levels will finish the job -> still all points lost. And suicide scanning near HW could still happen this way (though like Demolition said, you could use cloakers for that now). But all in all this is a good idea!
