- Non Attack Pact -

Suggest and discuss new ideas or ways we can improve the game.
Itsje
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Location: Wassenaarse Slag - Netherlands
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- Non Attack Pact -

Post by Itsje »

I think almost every plot in TVS has hated the Naping of legions in at least 1 Beta

I know it is the nature of this game and we all know that it is just common sense in most cases..

So how do we avoid a NaP ?
That is not a easy to answer question. but i just thought back to the days that i called all Orkfia players to TVS
and in Orkfia is one feature that we could use in TVS also.. aldo slightly changed to the needs of TVS

4 Legions the ultimate TVS game in a perfect game should go like this
Jax and Bors Fight Jax destroy boraxus
Tibs and krills fight Tibs destroy krilgore

Tibs and Jax fight a ultimate final battle

In practice it is almost impossible there is always 1 legion first down and 1 legion becomes the strongest.. so the remaining legion join forces and usually that ends in a stalemate for a long time...

- So how do i see this nap problem solved...
1 - The first 25 turns are fixed in Roids ( means every player from every legion will start in roids and is forced to do battle -
- if you hyper out you are safe for that turn - but you end up back in roids again.

2 - After Turn 25 The TVS system automatically unlocks the roids and the 1 and 2 legions will be at war and the 3 and 4 legions will be also at war.
2a ( legion 1 and 2 get no bonus or points for shooting at legion 3 and 4 + HW and 3 and 4 get nothing for shooting 1 and 2 + HW)
2b the war declaration last for 25 turns every next will last 15 turns once it expires a new war can be started by voting just like voting for a LC
2c once 1 legion is destroyed the war system is switched of. and the anti coalitions system kicks in ( means that wen there is a third party in any sector > There will be "anomalies of 25% Shield damage every second turn it is there < the legion closest to his HW will not receive the damage. In a HW sector The PDS damage triples once there is a third party there for longer then 2 turns.


I just made this up wen typing so feel free to adapt change discuss...
it looks complicated but it is actually quit simple...
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Nivara
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:05 am

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by Nivara »

Probably seems simple to you because you don't have to code it ;)

There are some good ideas that you have, but I think it could be made much simpler by just implementing something where the NAP is coded into the game and given a time limit to it. Forcing a 'start arena' is a nice idea, but impractical as people do not join at the same time.

Would it be possible to code something in that forced legions to declare war on each other prior to attacking? Not that we could never attack each other, but if there were a prolonged attack on a base or a certain legion/player over several ticks, I think it might be a good idea to initiate a procedure where you have to declare war.

Of course, you wouldn't want this to get out of hand, because it'd make games last way longer than they should.. just shooting around ideas.. have been pretty busy at work so maybe these are stupid thoughts as I haven't had a lot of time to run it over in my head.. I also understand the complications of coding such things......
Britnoth
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:55 am

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by Britnoth »

"The first 25 turns are fixed in Roids... "

*cloaks*

*watches all the non-cloakers die. and die again. and again*

This just favours taking a cloaker, and being the biggest legion.. which in turn would encourage some kind of NAP right from the first tick. No thanks.

"the war declaration last for 25 turns every next will last 15 turns once it expires a new war can be started by voting just like voting for a LC"

I fail to see how this stops 3 legions declaring war on the 4th. Except if you have institutionalised NAPs, then you will not even have NAP breakers. No thanks.

"There will be anomalies of 25% Shield damage every second turn it is there < the legion closest to his HW will not receive the damage. In a HW sector The PDS damage triples once there is a third party there for longer then 2 turns."

This would destroy the game. What is the 3rd legion supposed to do while the other 2 legions shoot each other and score points? Naturally they will try to find someone to shoot.... generating huge anomaly damage to themselves and one of the other two legions... forcing either themselves or the other legion taking such damage to shortly withdraw. No thanks.


NAPs work. To discourage them strongly enough so they actually do not work - ie you *need* to be fighting all the other legions, will require more than this. I had a suggestion to do just this a few years ago, but was rather a large change so did not include it in my last ideas summary. I will take a look at it again.
iceblink
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:46 pm

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by iceblink »

Now about making some sort of need to shoot all the other 3 legions. If your legion fails to shoot one of the other legions (ie a NAP is going on) there is some sort of penalty.

(One problem with this is that the weakest legion can't just take on the 2nd weakest legion, but has to face 3 stronger legions... )
Seraphim
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by Seraphim »

Honestly, I don't think NAPs are bad. With TVS set up how it currently is, a legion blobs up and whoever is lucky enough to have the most active players and people wise enough to call the right targets and decide place of engagement wins. If you wanna break a deadlock like that you have to nap.

NAPs aren't the problem. The people forming NAPs, they might be.

Hardcoding shit like this hasn't worked for any game I've ever played. Community-driven policing is the only solution I've found works to some level. Stuff like honour and protocol.

Forget it.

The problem isn't NAPs. The problem is that legions need NAPs to win.

It's not a cause, it's a symptom.
Last edited by Seraphim on Thu May 26, 2011 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Britnoth
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:55 am

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by Britnoth »

iceblink wrote:Now about making some sort of need to shoot all the other 3 legions. If your legion fails to shoot one of the other legions (ie a NAP is going on) there is some sort of penalty.

(One problem with this is that the weakest legion can't just take on the 2nd weakest legion, but has to face 3 stronger legions... )
Oooh. Someone stumbled onto what I had in mind a few years ago! :) I will get back to you shortly.
iceblink
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:46 pm

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by iceblink »

Seraphim wrote:Honestly, I don't think NAPs are bad. With TVS set up how it currently is, a legion blobs up and whoever is lucky enough to have the most active players and people wise enough to call the right targets and decide place of engagement wins. If you wanna break a deadlock like that you have to nap.
Well the way it works now is that the legion which is "lucky enough to have the most active players and people wise enough to call the right targets and decide place of engagement" always loses because they get napped against, lose a few capital ships, and then they get demotivated. Not good for the game.

Naps would be okay if they would not automatically lead to the above scenario.
Sephiroth
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:03 am

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by Sephiroth »

itsje: I can see the issue you want to address, especially in the way Iceblink puts it.

Now for your solution: I disagree.. tho it would be cool to send in a lvl 1 tib to a huge krill+bors fight.. boooom cause massive shield damage the next tick.. just being lvl 1. i would feel so powerfull :D

as Seraph says, players will find a way around it, one way or another. so forcing it wont really help. The only thing you could consider is this in my opinion:

Points (or damage if you prefer)dealt = 100%/#enemy_legions

This just slows battles down and gives the legion ganged up on more of a chance to get away, ofcourse it sucks more for defense as well. but its a step forward I think
Itsje
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: Wassenaarse Slag - Netherlands
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Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by Itsje »

well it was just a quick idea and i already knew that it wouldn't work in the way i wrote it down.
But the i just put in here to get some discussion going and from there get new idea,s based on a flawed idea. :)

burning the idea down is easy but now now do the hard part and let new ideas, come out of the bad idea,s
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Seraphim
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: - Non Attack Pact -

Post by Seraphim »

Of course the easy solution here is either:

1) Reducing to 2 legions; (boooooring, REALLY need squad play for this)
2) Squad play instead of race play;
3) Force 2 legions to fight each other on half the map, and when two are destroyed open up, knock out tournament style; (problem ofc here is that 1 legion may die really really quickly, forcing the opponent to wait for 50.000 ticks - so it's not practical, but perhaps the direction of the thought can be used for a better solution)
4) Simplify the leveling system, by either speeding up the leveling process or by reducing the emphasis on personal player score, focussing more on team play.

None of these idea's are very good as is, but perhaps the train of thought can be used for something better.
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