Cloaker feature/nerf/adjustment thread

[piggycape]

I dont want cloackers nerfed. Kind of like how this round they are annoying. But only to a ship that goes solo...

[Demolition]

To be honest I am not sure why you would waste that much time for 1 cloaker, there are far better point options in the game to have your legion work on.

Because in the current situation a cloaker fleet is basically able to dominate any beta if it's active and organised. If you cannot realistically kill a single cloaked ship, but have a large enough amount of them in one place, a EoT/SoT de-cloaking, shoot, cloaking pattern would be a very lame but very successful way to get rid of (damaged) enemy ships with marginal risk involved.

The krils haven't been that organized in a long long time. The unfortunate truth imo is right now we have far too few players to legitimately do a cloaker legion. The bomber + repper legion reigns king still after the bomber nerf because there are pretty much never any fights outside of HWs and the invading legion is only there to bomb it to begin with.

I'm still not seeing how it would be a worthwhile investment to spend 2 turns doing pickups for 1 kill. I think strategically there are far better options, including spending those 2 turns moving towards a vacant HW, or if you so choose towards an enemy blob for points. Hoping and praying for points off a cloaker is a good way to lose the points gain battle.

[Islander]

To be honest I am not sure why you would waste that much time for 1 cloaker, there are far better point options in the game to have your legion work on.

Because in the current situation a cloaker fleet is basically able to dominate any beta if it's active and organised. If you cannot realistically kill a single cloaked ship, but have a large enough amount of them in one place, a EoT/SoT de-cloaking, shoot, cloaking pattern would be a very lame but very successful way to get rid of (damaged) enemy ships with marginal risk involved.

LOL! You're complaining that cloakers can EOT/SOT decloak and kill a ship? That's like complaining that bombers can bomb. It's the only offense cloakers have. If you're expecting them to go toe to toe with fighters and win with those lousy combat stats and pansy shields, think again. Now, I suggest you try flying one before saying they should be nerfed. Just ask Faulcon, you Tibs just killed an L4 AND nearly brought down a cloaked L5.

Now, about us being able to dominate any beta if its active and organized, this is true -- but a big IF. IF each person on that legion was online EOT/SOT each turn! But that would be true for every ship type (except an all repper squad for obvious reasons), wouldn't it? Also, its not like bomber legions where you have that one stationary target -- the only safe things cloakers will be able to kill are probably stragglers or crippled fleets who stop at a certain place. With the advent of Auto-Pilot who even stops at one place? And still, that cloaker fleet should be there at the right place, at the right time, and all in perfect coordination. Do-able in frantics, impossible in betas.

[iceblink]

The bomber + repper legion reigns king still after the bomber nerf because there are pretty much never any fights outside of HWs and the invading legion is only there to bomb it to begin with.

This is definately true. Maybe it could improve if bombers did less damage to other ships? Right now they are good for fighting AND bombing, so always reasonable to good points.

An all-repper squadron... now there is a thought. Now that we can rep home worlds, it might be worth a try

[whykt]

To be honest I am not sure why you would waste that much time for 1 cloaker, there are far better point options in the game to have your legion work on.

That cloaker in question was a level 5 in high damage, so definitely worth killing. When else is there a time to kill active experienced cloakers?

[Demolition]

To be honest I am not sure why you would waste that much time for 1 cloaker, there are far better point options in the game to have your legion work on.

That cloaker in question was a level 5 in high damage, so definitely worth killing. When else is there a time to kill active experienced cloakers?

Fleet to fleet fights where the cloaker soaks to red shields and cloaks? As you just did in Ajaxus. Why waste 2 turns in a random sector killing one. Your much better finding a vacant hw as the points there are guaranteed for pretty much everyone vs "Oh I hope I get an attack pickup, please please please gimmie an attack pickup *draws a HMR on full HP*"

[Jhyphi]

To be honest I am not sure why you would waste that much time for 1 cloaker, there are far better point options in the game to have your legion work on.

That cloaker in question was a level 5 in high damage, so definitely worth killing. When else is there a time to kill active experienced cloakers?

Fleet to fleet fights where the cloaker soaks to red shields and cloaks? As you just did in Ajaxus. Why waste 2 turns in a random sector killing one. Your much better finding a vacant hw as the points there are guaranteed for pretty much everyone vs "Oh I hope I get an attack pickup, please please please gimmie an attack pickup *draws a HMR on full HP*"

So you've just AGREED that "it's impossible to kill a lone, offline cloaked ship even with a full fleet with 2 turns, SO WHY BOTHER? GO DO SOMETHING ELSE?"

That means its overpowered in that regard. Cloakers already have a HUGE escape mechanism in any fleet battle by cloaking during hyper window. That's the tradeoff with fighters being slightly stronger.

It needs to at least be able to be killed while cloaked if by itself with ENTIRE ENEMY FLEET.

As you said, even with your "uncoordinated" krils this round, you took out collider and almost took out ecvej who was offline with your 6 ships doing eot/sot firing. We've definitely had 8-9 ships online at eot/sot in battles so not hard to do. Imagine if a fleet repeatedly did that and hypered away at sot killing 1 ship while you couldn't kill that 10th ship who was offline and a straggler who missed the turns just because he was cloaked even though he was left with your entire fleet?

Basically, even in that situation knowing there's cloakers in the sector who will decloak for eot/sot in one of next few ticks. If pickups of cloakers is low percentage, you have nothing to do but sit and wait for death knowing they're all there because you can't shoot cloaked ships enough even when you know they're there and there's nothing else to do.

Just because you say Krils didn't completely pull it off, doesn't mean it's not overpowered. In fact, krils did it quite well even though you said you were uncoordinated.

"Uncoordinated"(according to you) = still very successful ----> Coordinated = way overpowered

It's not about the krils, it's about cloakers in general. Imagine its next beta and you were on normal legion facing one.

[Demolition]

you have nothing to do but sit and wait for death

If you know they are there, and you do not move the blob, you ask for that death and the loss of your chance at winning the round. An all cloaker legion at present can not go into an enemy HW and bomb, that is the tradeoff they made with their choice. You could move you blob rather then sit there and die. You could a) go home or b) go to their hw and bomb forcing them to decloak and defend properly or c) be helpless food.

I refuse to believe you have your hands tied behind your back because cloakers exist. Strategy is your best friend in a strategic warfare game my friend.

[Jhyphi]

you have nothing to do but sit and wait for death

If you know they are there, and you do not move the blob, you ask for that death and the loss of your chance at winning the round. An all cloaker legion at present can not go into an enemy HW and bomb, that is the tradeoff they made with their choice. You could move you blob rather then sit there and die. You could a) go home or b) go to their hw and bomb forcing them to decloak and defend properly or c) be helpless food.

Got it, so your almighty strategy is to run away every time the cloakers come. As we all know, there's always stragglers. So you're saying, every time you detect the cloaker squad, you should run and let them freely kill 1-2 ships.

Wow, that's by far the best strategy I've heard in a long time and a great argument that it's not overpowered.

[Jhyphi]

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