A chance: yes. Certainty: no.iceblink wrote:The point is: if I am 100% active i must always stand a chance (unless i was stupid enough to use all my moves already).
Sooo, new Beta ?
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
I think that if you would risk flying your ship with just 2.5k of health (42% of max health), then it's your fault that you died. It's not like the early game phase where there are only a few low level ships that could hurt you -- and you know there are a lot of L5 cloakers lurking around.
The triple (I doubt it was just a free) was a very lucky shot as well, given that it was (1) a random pickup, and (2) the L5 would have to dish out 834 damage on average. Even on an L5 vs L3 that would have been pretty significant damage, which suggests (1) cloaker possibly is high combat, (2) you are high combat, (3) high damage tick? (not sure if there is in roids), or (most likely) a combination of the three. In any case, if it was (2) -- then that further adds to the risk factor.
I agree with Fwiffo that if the Cloaker really wanted to kill you, then you would be dead. Given that he was able to dish out that much punishment (approx. 840/shot), if you were stuck at EOT/SOT you'd be twice dead in 9 shots. Those +750/+750 hp 10 selfreps wouldn't help, and even if his guns miraculously malfunction you'd still be stuck another tick for 5 more shots of punishment. Pickups probably, but that is pure luck. I don't see why he would decloak midtick, but if I were the cloaker and had to do that, I'd decloak and fire once. If you ran away I'd just chase you and kill you SOT next tick. The only argument I find in your favor is IF you have backup (eg. he chases you to sector with friendlies, or friendlies could jump roids next tick if he attacks you) -- which is why cloakers are artificially powerful in frantics because the activity level is generally low, and next tick comes along pretty fast.
I highly doubt that the cloaker was hunting you. Most likely he was just lurking roids doing pickups, found a triple and decided to take a pot shot at you and which ended up killing you. Personally, I don't use it much but it certainly has its uses... especially for planetary defense, annoying the enemy when outnumbered, shooting other cloakers, etc.
I'd actually like to request that cloakers get an Auto-Cloak option, similar to Auto-Pilot, during betas.
Makes me sleep better at night knowing I'm cloaked, and saves burning an extra waking turn for cloaking.
The triple (I doubt it was just a free) was a very lucky shot as well, given that it was (1) a random pickup, and (2) the L5 would have to dish out 834 damage on average. Even on an L5 vs L3 that would have been pretty significant damage, which suggests (1) cloaker possibly is high combat, (2) you are high combat, (3) high damage tick? (not sure if there is in roids), or (most likely) a combination of the three. In any case, if it was (2) -- then that further adds to the risk factor.
I agree with Fwiffo that if the Cloaker really wanted to kill you, then you would be dead. Given that he was able to dish out that much punishment (approx. 840/shot), if you were stuck at EOT/SOT you'd be twice dead in 9 shots. Those +750/+750 hp 10 selfreps wouldn't help, and even if his guns miraculously malfunction you'd still be stuck another tick for 5 more shots of punishment. Pickups probably, but that is pure luck. I don't see why he would decloak midtick, but if I were the cloaker and had to do that, I'd decloak and fire once. If you ran away I'd just chase you and kill you SOT next tick. The only argument I find in your favor is IF you have backup (eg. he chases you to sector with friendlies, or friendlies could jump roids next tick if he attacks you) -- which is why cloakers are artificially powerful in frantics because the activity level is generally low, and next tick comes along pretty fast.
I highly doubt that the cloaker was hunting you. Most likely he was just lurking roids doing pickups, found a triple and decided to take a pot shot at you and which ended up killing you. Personally, I don't use it much but it certainly has its uses... especially for planetary defense, annoying the enemy when outnumbered, shooting other cloakers, etc.
I'd actually like to request that cloakers get an Auto-Cloak option, similar to Auto-Pilot, during betas.
Makes me sleep better at night knowing I'm cloaked, and saves burning an extra waking turn for cloaking.Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
Lots of words but nothing new added. Of course it is possible to kill me with a triple or whatever. All i am saying is that being able to go into a sector totally unseen and kill a ship without the victim ever noticing it is an unfair 'feature'.
So far the proponents seem to be avid cloaker pilots. Do any non-cloakers have an opinion on this?
So far the proponents seem to be avid cloaker pilots. Do any non-cloakers have an opinion on this?
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
Good compromise be that cloaked incoming can be seen due to the hyper engine being detected but they arrive in sector cloaked?
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Demolition
- Posts: 147
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Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
I think the best compromise is to let them cloak hyperd, but they can not do pickups or attack while cloaked.ecvej wrote:Good compromise be that cloaked incoming can be seen due to the hyper engine being detected but they arrive in sector cloaked?
Forcing the cloaker to reveal itself in order to do damage leaves the cloakers with their scouting ability while not making them overpowered.
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
That would pretty much take away all the new interest I have in playing a cloaker.ecvej wrote:Good compromise be that cloaked incoming can be seen due to the hyper engine being detected but they arrive in sector cloaked?
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
Since you have difficulty understanding long paragraphs, to summarize, my points are:iceblink wrote:Lots of words but nothing new added. Of course it is possible to kill me with a triple or whatever. All i am saying is that being able to go into a sector totally unseen and kill a ship without the victim ever noticing it is an unfair 'feature'.
So far the proponents seem to be avid cloaker pilots. Do any non-cloakers have an opinion on this?
1. If you went in that sector with 100% health, you wouldn't be killed.
2. If you went in that sector with more piloting, you wouldn't be killed.
3. Lots of luck involved in your situation.
4. If the cloaker really wanted to kill you, he would do so without pickups.
I doubt this happens to a lot of people. Has this happened to you on numerous occasions?
No need to change anything as Cloakers are already weak -- they don't need to be further weakened.
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
As a "non-cloaker", I don't really see the issue here. Cloaking is their distinctive advantage. If there was too much complaining about the all-so-mighty cloakers (wait, wasn't it bombers in the last betas? Now it's cloakers... what's next? Fighters because they deal more damage?), why not
a) disable the ability to even acquire attack PUs when being cloaked (which would be kind of consistent with the underlying logic)
b) have cloakers use two moves to de-cloak. Thus, they'd lose one out of four moves to 'assassinate' someone but could still re-cloak if they clicked it on accident. This might keep above situation from happening but it would would lower chances for it to happen drastically. Most importantly, however, a cloaker could not de-cloak, attack once and cloak again to finish a very red ship off.
a) disable the ability to even acquire attack PUs when being cloaked (which would be kind of consistent with the underlying logic)
b) have cloakers use two moves to de-cloak. Thus, they'd lose one out of four moves to 'assassinate' someone but could still re-cloak if they clicked it on accident. This might keep above situation from happening but it would would lower chances for it to happen drastically. Most importantly, however, a cloaker could not de-cloak, attack once and cloak again to finish a very red ship off.
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
Cloakers take 5 moves to cloak you know.idontknow wrote:As a "non-cloaker", I don't really see the issue here. Cloaking is their distinctive advantage. If there was too much complaining about the all-so-mighty cloakers (wait, wasn't it bombers in the last betas? Now it's cloakers... what's next? Fighters because they deal more damage?), why not
a) disable the ability to even acquire attack PUs when being cloaked (which would be kind of consistent with the underlying logic)
b) have cloakers use two moves to de-cloak. Thus, they'd lose one out of four moves to 'assassinate' someone but could still re-cloak if they clicked it on accident. This might keep above situation from happening but it would would lower chances for it to happen drastically. Most importantly, however, a cloaker could not de-cloak, attack once and cloak again to finish a very red ship off.
Re: Sooo, new Beta ?
I have never played a cloaker before because I found them completely useless unless you're not very active. Ability to fly cloaked got my interest, but not enough to be worth the loss of firepower of fighters, bonuses of bombers or consistency/safety of reppers. The only reason to try it out this time was becoming a kril (fun to see how the majority of players saw it in a similar way).
It takes 5 turns to cloak, auto-cloak would be very strong to the point of becoming too strong, but still not stronger than bombers, I don't see the need to nerf anything though. Give cloakers auto cloak/decloak to make the stronger, keep bomber bonuses just the way they are now (bombers with significant combat points lvl up even faster than before) and increase the power of fighters such that 2 fighters could take on 3 bombers/cloakers in ship-ship combat. (Additionally some measures to make dying not so painful and disheartining could be implemented as well)
It takes 5 turns to cloak, auto-cloak would be very strong to the point of becoming too strong, but still not stronger than bombers, I don't see the need to nerf anything though. Give cloakers auto cloak/decloak to make the stronger, keep bomber bonuses just the way they are now (bombers with significant combat points lvl up even faster than before) and increase the power of fighters such that 2 fighters could take on 3 bombers/cloakers in ship-ship combat. (Additionally some measures to make dying not so painful and disheartining could be implemented as well)